Problem Page for Gay Wrestlers

Wrestling for Gay Guys

Problem Page

If, after reading Wrestling for Gay Guys, you are having
problems with your wrestling (or lack of it) you can write
now for Donald Black's personal help. Just click on:

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I am coming to London on a visit at the end of this year and it would be nice to meet you. Would there be a possibility of wrestling you, too?
      Am I right in thinking that you are sado-masochistic? I have read your book and know that you like boxing.
      I am very attracted to violence. I have over a hundred fight videos of no-holds-barred fights. The Brazilian ones are the best - - they really mean it.
      I don't mind punching you but I don't like getting hurt so I wouldn't want you to hit me or use submission holds on me.
      I wouldn't want sex either. Nothing personal. I am just not into sex at all.
      I hope we can arrange to meet up.

Thanks for your letter. It wasn't addressed to my problem page but I think that that is where it belongs and I am glad you have agreed to let me include it here.
      Fighting is all about expressing your anger with the other guy.
      Containing your anger is unbearable because it doesn't go away.
      Many men who have a lot of anger inside them actually welcome being hit by the other guy because that gives them permission to retaliate, it allows them to hit back and so give them a chance to let their anger out.
      Are you one of those guys who are unable to express their anger?
      It would seem to me that you are.
      As you are clearly fascinated by violence, that is, guys expressing their anger with each other - - it would seem that you must have a lot of anger inside yourself, and watching those violent videos is giving you vicarious pleasure.
      That is, the Brazilian fighters are letting out the anger for you that you are unable to let out yourself. You are obtaining vicarious pleasure from it instead of actually letting your own anger out.
      If you were able to express your anger you would welcome being hit by me as that would give you permission to retaliate and to let your anger out by hitting me back.
      Not being able to release your anger unfortunately has some serious and unfortunate consequences for you.
      The fact that you can not bear to be hit must mean that this is because, if you were hit, you would not be able to retaliate but would have more anger bottled up inside you instead. Keeping your anger bottled up is unbearable. It also makes you frightened of what would happen if you were to lose control of the anger you already have bottled up inside you.
      Inevitably, being hit makes one angry but if you feel unable to express that anger, instead of expressing your anger with the guy who hit you, your anger can not get out: it stays bottled up inside you; and so you feel angry with yourself because you are unable to hit back, to let your anger out, to fight back as most men can. It leaves you feeling inferior because you can not do what most men around you can, and so you feel angry with yourself for being inferior.
      This is in addition to the anger you feel because of being hit. And in addition to all the anger that is already bottled up inside you.
      But it doesn't end there. If you suppress your anger you cannot be selective about which emotions you suppress and which emotions you let out. If you suppress one emotion you will suppress them all and this is surely the reason why you are "not into sex at all" as you say. You have suppressed your tender sexual feelings together with your anger. You are paying a terrible price for bottling up your anger, and not being able to express it.
      I don't know if you skipped Chapter 9 when you read my book but I would strongly recommend that you read Chapter 9 again and also the other references to anger (see Index at back of book).
      I will look forward to meeting you on the mat when you come to London.

I like to wrestle and enjoy it greatly.
      However, a recent opponent is keen that we should practise the sleeper hold when wrestling. I am very uneasy about this. Yes, I find the IDEA attractive, but without proper training in its application, I feel it would be much too dangerous to give it a go. This makes me uneasy about wrestling with this guy now in case he tries the sleeper and does me harm.
      So, what do you think? And any tips about the safe learning and practice of the sleeper; or is that a contradiction in terms?

Thanks for your letter.
      Throttle (sleeper) and choke holds are used in judo. They are quite safe to use when both contestants have been trained in the correct application and use of these holds, so I think you are quite right to be concerned.
      The throttle hold squeezes the carotid artery to stop the blood going to the brain. The choke hold squeezes the throat to block the airway to the lungs.
      You could both join a judo class if there is one near to you to learn these holds or, if you do not want to learn judo, you might ask the judo instructor if he would give you a special lesson specifically in these holds. He might agree but I think he would be quite right to refuse as I will explain.
      You and your wrestling friend should both know that, if you want to submit but are unable to speak, you can signify you want to submit by tapping either your opponent or the mat three times. Your opponent should then release the hold immediately.
      Both these holds cause the victim enough distress which gives him time to submit before he passes out (becomes unconscious). However, the danger is that if your opponent does not release the hold when you signify (by submitting verbally or by tapping three times to submit) then the person who is in one of these holds will blackout. You need to know your friend well enough to know that you can trust him to release the hold as soon as you submit.
      If you were to blackout from a choke hold you would need the help of someone trained in first aid and specifically trained (for judo) in reviving someone who has been choked. All judo instructors are trained in first aid. Different methods of revival are used depending on whether the person has been choked with his lungs full of air or with his lungs empty. If the victim is not revived within five minutes he could sustain extremely serious brain damage.
      If you were wrestling without a judo instructor or some other first-aider being there, you would need to be sure that your friend is qualified in first aid for judo in the event that he did not release the hold but kept it on until you blacked out, as you would then be relying on him to revive you.
      With a sleeper hold (blocking the carotid artery) the blood pressure increases to try to overcome the blockage. When the hold is released it should not be released suddenly as the increased blood pressure with a sudden surge of blood to the brain, when the hold is released suddenly, could cause a brain haemorrhage or a stroke. It is therefore important that a sleeper hold is released gradually so that the blood pressure has time to re-adjust back to normal with the renewed flow of blood to the brain.
      The other problem with these holds is that both of them need to be applied correctly without putting pressure on the Adam's apple as this is, of course, the voice box (larynx) and as it is made of brittle cartilage any pressure applied on the Adam's apple could damage the voice box (possibly irreparably). This is another reason why you should learn how to apply these holds only with a qualified instructor.
      My advice to you is that with these two holds it is very important to have learned how to execute them correctly. Therefore don't wrestle with this particular friend if you are not sure that he has learned from a qualified instructor how to apply these holds correctly and if you are also not sure you can trust him to release them as soon as you submit.
      It might be useful for you to join a judo class in any event, as you would then learn how to defend yourself from someone trying to apply one of these holds on you: which may be valuable at some time in the future even if you never wrestle with this particular friend again.
      I hope you have fun on the mat!

Thanks for your helpful comments.
      I will take them into consideration and look around for a judo instruction class.
      My wrestling opponent is just either going to have to come with me, or find some other mug to put in a sleeper hold.

A lot of chaps I wrestle with are very secretive about their wrestling - - not to me but to their other friends. And neighbours. And family. This is really naff because this means they don't have proper facilities in their homes to wrestle. What would people think?
      And they want to start wrestling on the ground because they're frightened of falling or they sink to the ground as soon as you get to grips. And you've got to make excuses all the time so that people won't find out they're wrestling.
      I've suggested they read your book but they don't.
      What can I do about this?

Yes. Well, tell me something new!
      There are a lot of gay guys who are frightened of their own shadows. Many are too frightened of family strictures to even come out. Why do you think I wrote my book?
      You can take a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
      First of all, I would try to find some wrestlers who have taken the trouble to learn the basics at a wrestling club even if that is not the style they are most interested in. I take it you are wrestling for submissions.
      If your secretive friends sink to the ground when you start wrestling, let them, and if you go down afterwards on top of them you will have the advantage.
      But that means you will probably win all the time! When they get tired of losing they may start to wonder why you are so good.
      Instead of recommending my book (thanks for advertising it) just explain to them how it has helped you and maybe they will gradually come to realise its value and that they are missing out on something.
      Re-educating people can be a slow process, I am afraid.

This isn't really a problem. It's just that I've tried to start wrestling too late. I've been going to a club to learn. I'm in my forties now. My mother says it's stupid to start at that age. I think maybe she's right. I've never played any sport before and so I'm finding it quite difficult.

I get the feeling from the fact that you've taken the trouble to write to me that you have mixed feelings about giving up wrestling. You want to wrestle, but you don't want to.
      Of course, if you haven't played any sport before then taking up a sport like wrestling is certainly jumping in at the deep end. But there are people in their eighties who take up pastimes like scuba-diving which also requires quite strenuous training as a pre-requisite, so it is not impossible. At the Amsterdam Gay Games one of the women wrestlers won a bronze medal at the age of 53 and she had only begun wrestling five years previously! The satisfaction is that much greater when you eventually succeed in doing something you have always wanted to do.
      Taking exercise (which wrestling is) is of course very beneficial: it keeps you fit, active, healthy, young at heart, and prolongs life, besides giving you a lot of pleasure in the taking part and the satisfaction and sense of achievement that will give you a feeling of pride in yourself.
      So your mother is quite wrong in saying it is stupid.
      I am sure most people would applaud and encourage you.
      This begs the question: Why is your mother trying to dissuade you from wrestling?
      I think that what your mother is doing is to insidiously discourage you from wrestling by making you feel embarrassed about it because she selfishly does not approve of your doing it and is trying to manipulate you into not doing what she does not want you to do. As her motives have been discussed in Wrestling for Gay Guys (see pages 27-30, 41-42, 108 & 154) I am sure you are now all too aware of what they are if you have read the book. She would not be the first mother of a gay son who is manipulating her son to her own ends, so beware!
      I get the feeling somehow that there is something you haven't told me. That perhaps there is another reason why you need to give up wrestling and that you are using your mother's exhortation as an excuse. You know, as a rationalisation - - that is, a polite excuse so that you do not have to admit to the real reason which might embarrass you too much to reveal frankly.
      Could that be the case?
      Are you, perhaps, frightened of succeeding? Or of what would happen if you succeeded? (see pages 50 - 54 in my book.)
      Perhaps you might read chapters 4 and 5 again and see if anything rings a bell for you, or if anything else comes to mind, which we could then discuss.

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