ABSTRACT:

OBJECTIVES:

After looking at a history of punk and where its roots are planted, in this comparative study I hope to find out:

· Where punk came from
· How strongly are the scenes within the country are linked
· What part politics play in worldwide punk
· How subcultures and subcultural capital operate within punk
· How punk is networked though the different countries
· How punk is consumed by the different countries, through: the music itself, fanzines and e-'zines

Through completing this paper I hope to find out the main differences between the two countries in relation to punk and pin point the reasons why these differences exist.

DESIGN:

Initial research into punk had already been undertaken through the process of participation. From these observations I decided on suitable questions for interviews. Questions were piloted through email with friends already involved with the punk scene (see appendix 1)

METHODS:

Pilot work generated the idea of using the internet as a way of gaining information through the use of websites. To conduct interviews I would use "Instant Messenger" (a program from AOL that allows users to 'talk' to each other be sending short messages back and forth), this acts as effectively as an interview as it is spontaneous but cuts out the transcribing. The questions were finalised and I left room for areas of interest if the interview took that route (see appendix 2). This secondary research would back up the primary research of looking at academic texts, journals such as fanzines and websites. I would also include the ethnographic observations that I have made whist being involved with the punk scene myself.

RESULTS (of interviews):

The results of the interviews were assessed bearing in mind age and from where the respondents came from (see appendix 2). Objectively looking at the results was difficult and holding back my own opinions during the interviews was hard.
CONCLUSIONS:

Of the interviews conducted, I discovered that the participants from the UK had a stronger notion of the politics of punk but this sometimes clouded their outlook on the scene as a whole, judging before participating in shows or listening to the music. Respondents from Australia were younger and more accepting of new bands and new technology, thus creating a stronger sense of unity within a single scene or scenes interlinked throughout the country.


CONTENTS:

A HISTORY OF PUNK:

"Some say music shouldn't deal with problems, politics or facts or something with intellect, but no one is perfect! In our case, only ten percent is entertainment (do you buy that? Huh!). The rest is something we have to do. Hopefully we are getting through to you!!" (Snorty, Pacifical, Rascal - Randy, 1998)

In all honesty, I believe that the above lyrics taken from a contemporary punk album summarise the state of the punk scene worldwide in the year 2001 well. From here on in, I am going to look at the punk movement in great detail, from it's jaded beginnings to the part that I play in it in this country and what to expect when I travel to the other side of the world to Australia.

NEVER MIND THE BOLLOCKS - THE SEX PISTOLS WEREN'T FIRST!

To understand people's feelings towards punk I feel it is necessary to look at where it came from. Initially, I believed that punk was a reaction to the bland stadium rock of the seventies, this would seem true: "The excitement of rock and roll, turned into the oppressive doldrums of overblown stadium rock extravaganzas" (R. Seth Friedman, http://www.factsheet5.com/History.html). However, taking a closer look at the beginnings of punk, both the music and the ethic, shows to me that this might not be entirely true. I think that the music industry was looking for a new style to exploit: "The effect was a farcical major label quickstep the like of which has never been seen before or since…the corporate desire to 'tame'…was just as strong as the desire to make money…" (S. Garfield, 1988: 162). From research, I can see the style already existed, the major label (a large multinational company which tries to maintain an influence over consumers through money and power) wanted to bring the music form to impressionable teenagers to consume. The true ethic of punk had been evolving for at least twenty years before the music even came about.
Stepping back in time from when most people believe punk started (during the late seventies) to the late 1950's, we can see that punk ethics had already started to take shape in a subculture in England, known as the skinhead movement. Modern popular belief is that the skinhead movement was a culture that embraced racism and bigotry; the exact opposite is actually true. The skinhead was born out of white working class English, immigrant Jamaicans and West Indian Blacks, who called themselves rude boys. The exact ratio of whites to non-whites is not clear but the fact of the matter was that result of this mix was an example of cultural unity. The rude boys were into ska, a now popular sub-genre of modern punk (Van Dorston www.fastnbulbous.com/punk.htm).
Through the mixing of cultures obviously came a mixing of music styles: R&B (not to be confused with the music industries laughable re-incarnation in the late nineties but the original Rhythm and Blues), soul and Jamaican rhythm. Jamaican music became more important to the skinhead scene during the sixties and by the end of the decade scene had gone through listening to ska to rocksteady to reggae.

Although the belief that skinheads were racist was unfounded, the fact that they were violent and anti-social wasn't. The short hair was there so it didn't get pulled, the donkey jackets were tough and durable and the steel toed 'Cherry Red's' came in useful for causing havoc at football matches or going 'hippy bashing'. Skinheads took pride in the fact that they were from the working classes and the reason they didn't like the hippies was because they were deemed as middle class dropouts.

As the skinheads were used to dancing to ska or rocksteady, when dub reggae (slow beat reggae) hit the scene many started to lose interest in the music. The dub reggae was soon replaced in 1973 by a band that you wouldn't expect - Slade. Slade introduced the skinheads to Oi!, or pub rock as it was known then. Slade of course went on to sell-out to a major label, become glam rock and to be remembered every Christmas by "I Wish It Could Be Christmas Everyday!" The fact that this had happened to Slade didn't really matter, because by the mid seventies, punk music was arriving on British shores!

Music by bands like the Velvet Underground, Iggy and the Stooges, The MC5 and the shock stage shows of artists like Alice Cooper started to come together to form a new style of music. Punk rock was born. Taken by these American bands, an English band called the Damned, get the award for releasing the first punk album in the UK. Then there was the Clash, who released hit after hit. Even Motorhead, who you wouldn't usually associate with punk (more heavy metal) laid down some of the lyrical styles of punk, as we know it now.

"The sheer volume and variety of exciting pre-Pistols bands was overwhelming, not only in Britain, but in America as well. From The Residents to The Patti Smith Group, The Neon Boys, Television, Johnny Thunders & The Heartbreakers, Richard Hell & the Voidoids, Rocket From The Tombs, Pere Ubu, The Dictators, The Ramones, Blondie, The Dils, Chrome and MX-80" (Van Dorston, www.fastnbulbous.com/punk.htm)

In 1975, "Malcolm McLaren decided to manage the Sex Pistols because he thought that they'd be a good advert for his shop. He wanted to sell more trousers!" (Home, Blood Splattered With Guitars, p19). It would be ignorant of me not to mention the Sex Pistols. They were a pivotal band in punk music, through music style as influence and initial entrance to the punk scene for many and through the fact that they were marketed to a mass audience. "Do the Sex Pistols have anything in common with the average punk rock band? No." (Home, 1995: 19). The reason for this is that they were over hyped, over produced and over played.

Whilst the so-called 'punk explosion' was happening in the UK, a similar reaction was happening in the US. However, instead of taking all the clothes and style side of punk in the UK, the US took the skinhead influence and mixed it with the punk music and came up with another sub-genre, hardcore (or at least the US equivalent at the time, hardcore is now a genre in it's own right). The US is often talked about in terms of punk as East and West coast. On the West coast you had bands like: The Descendents, Circle Jerks, The Vandals, Bad Religion and Black Flag. On the East, bands like Minor Threat and Bad Brains. West coast punk was given international status by Black Flag in 1978 when they set-up their record label SST, they had extensively toured and although it was two years until they released their first E.P. they had become a 'must see' band. Black Flag and the other bands of that time on the West coast rarely sang about politics or preached to their audiences but over on the East coast it was a different story. Minor Threat were one of the most influential of all the punk bands. Although Black Flag were a groundbreaking band musically, lyrically, Minor Threat were in a league of their own. Probably they're most famous song is "Straight Edge":

"I'm a person just like you/But I've got better things to do
Than sit around and fuck my head/Hang out with the living dead
Snort white shit up my nose/Pass out at the shows
I don't even think about speed/That's something I just don't need
I've got the straight edge

I'm a person just like you/But I've got better things to do
Than sit around and smoke dope/'Cause I know I can cope
Laugh at the thought of eating ludes/Laugh at the thought of sniffing glue
Always gonna keep in touch/Never want to use a crutch
I've got the straight edge"

The straight edge movement that is another sub-genre of punk was given its title by this song. Straight edge "developed as an offshoot of the punk rock/hardcore scenes of the early 1980's" (www.straight-edge.com), and is a complete opposite to the "nihilistic lifestyle that cultural icons like Sid Vicious romanticized" (Van Dorston, www.fastnbulbous.com/punk.htm), its basic ideas are "don't drink/don't smoke/don't fuck." (www.straight-edge.com). Straight edge still exists today but it also encompasses a vegan diet and often left wing politics.

The great thing about punk was that it was breaking all previous boundaries in music. Instead of music being something that only an elite of musicians could produce, punk embraced the do-it-yourself ethic - anyone could be in a band, start a fanzine, start a label. Although I have been discussing the US and UK punk scenes the DIY ethic had spread all over the world by this time. Independent labels were created by the dozens throughout Europe, North America, Australia, and a few countries in Africa (Van Dorston, www.fastnbulbous.com/punk.htm).

Fanzines (a magazine created by a fan for a fan, independently) started to be produced with the punks being resourceful and using cut and paste methods and taking advantage of photocopy machines to make simple black and white publications. I will go into more detail about these in the Mediation section of this paper. "Music critique of all the newly formed bands and their demos, interviews, comics, Xerox art, poetry, fiction, news, investigative reporting, political agendas" (Van Dorston, www.fastnbulbous.com/punk.htm).

PUNK IS DEAD - OH NO IT'S NOT!

This is the point in punk history that I find very interesting. Most academics and mainstream journalists chart punk as 'dying' in 1978. Far from dying, punk went underground (a term coined by Paul Weller of The Jam about bands moving out of the mainstream and being enjoyed by a smaller, loyal fan base). I strongly agree with Dave Laing, when he says: "Whether or not punk rock was dead after 1978, punks themselves weren't" (Laing, 1995: 109). He has summed it up well. Just because the Sid Vicious was dead and the Sex Pistols had broken up, it didn't take away the fact that the punk fans were still alive, they still wanted self-expression. "Hence punk couldn't die because it had to supply that demand" (Laing, 1995: 108).

Sure enough, punk didn't die; it's still alive and very well today. From the early beginnings in the fifties and sixties to what I would really say was the birth (rather than the death as newspapers such as the Evening Standard in February 1978 said it was) in the seventies, punk has snow balled underground and has become the strong ethical music style that so many people base their lives around across the world.

COUNTRIES OF STUDY:

THE UK:

Situated in the Northern hemisphere, the UK has always been an epicentre for culture and has a strong tourist industry through its vast history. London, the country's capital, is renowned for fashion and is one of the world's most interesting cities. Bands play in and around London and the city is usually included on most European tours. Other ports of call are often: Scotland, Northern Ireland, Manchester, Nottingham, Exeter and Brighton.

AUSTRALIA:

Situated in the Southern hemisphere, this country boasts a warm climate all year round. Although it is far from the UK and the US, larger bands within the international punk scene find the money to play there. Usual cities for bands to play are: Perth, Melbourne, Cairns, Sydney, Adelaide and Brisbane.

MUSIC INDUSTRY:

One thing that punk has been fighting against since day one is the major recording industry. In this chapter I am going to outline the differences between the major and independent recording industry, look at how each country consumes the output by these companies and try to access why, if any, the differences in consumption are there.

MAJORS:

The major recording industry consists of five main companies that share the majority of the market between them. These companies are: "Bertelsmann AG's" "BMG Entertainment", "EMI Recorded Music", "Sony Music Entertainment", "Time Warner's" "Warner Music Group", and "Seagram's" "Universal Music Group" (Source: www.redherring.com 2001). Within these five companies other smaller divisions of the companies are set up as individual labels to target different markets, for example "Sony" owns "Epic" and "Warner" owns "Reprise". These smaller divisions are often mistaken for independent labels however, it is clear that they are not as they use the same distribution channels and still have a big budget when it comes to marketing a band through campaigns and videos (which cost thousands of pounds). Music to major record labels means money, the industry tries to predict what the next trend will be and tries to exploit this. A way that the industry have found of controlling what people listen to is by putting together bands themselves and then effectively telling the public that this is what they want to listen to: "The major entertainment-arts corporations are continually seeking to control and thus maximise their profits from cultural production" (Negus, 1999: 15).

INDEPENDENTS:

There are thousands of independent record labels (indies) that remain fringe competition to the majors. Many only release one album and many are set up by a band just to release their material. Unfortunately, most indies fold. This is largely due to financial pressures and not through choice. Independents can be successful though. The best example of this is Fat Wreck Chords of the US, they continue to sell lots of records even though they use no major distribution means and have no corporate backing. With the advances in the internet, the indie label can thrive because of the great means of distribution and advertising. The mp3 file (a means of compressing an audio file that makes it suitable for fast downloads with little quality loss) has proven to be a good way of sharing music. Indies have recognised this with most having a download page. However, the major recording industry is concerned with the mp3 and the internet, they see it as a threat to a market which they hold control over, if people can start getting music for free and not have to pay for material the consequences are obvious:

"…the major labels have not shared…enthusiasm. Ten days after My.MP3.com's release, the RIAA (Recording Industry Association of America) filed suit against MP3.com, claiming that the San Diego-based Web company violated copyright law." (L. Anderson: 2000)

The indies are described as a melting pot for talent, Negus goes so far as to say: "Creativity is outside the corporate machine and dependent upon inspired musicians, writers, entrepreneurs, subcultures and small record labels" (1999: 24). It seems clear to me that the indies are there to promote great music and are not there to produce great profits, the majors, on the other hand, are there for precisely the latter.

THE IMPORTANCE OF THE INDEPENDENT IN PUNK:

The theorists Theodor Adorno and Max Horkheimer came up with a term for the music industry in the 1940's, they described it as a "culture industry". By this they meant that cultural items, such as pieces of music were being produced in a way similar to consumer items. The idea of music being produced on an assembly line could also be referred to as being "Fordist" (taken from Henry Fords way of assembling cars, utilising production means and maximising profit). Negus states however (1999: 17) that the music industry "has been misleadingly characterised as mechanical and factory like". I agree with Negus to a point here. I believe that it is wrong to say that the independent music industry is like an assembly line but I would say that it is very true that the major recording industry is. This was underlined recently with the BBC's programme "Popstars". This was a television programme that showed episode by episode how a band was created. What surprised me was the way that the public in the UK still went out and bought the CDs even though they were shown how it was all put together. From an interview conducted with Paul Taylor (co-owner of the punk label Far Q Records) from the UK it was clear what he understood of the marketing policies of major labels:

Myself: We get email everyday from bands trying to be the next Blink-182 or Green day, what would you put this down to?
Taylor: I would put this down to the fact that major labels have invested a lot of money advertising Green Day, Blink-182 and more recently Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park and Papa Roach. They have portrayed an image to the kids who wanna be like them. It was the same in my day, except the bands were decent and there wasn't as many of them (23/02/01).

However, when I asked a similar question to one of the Australian questionnaire respondents, Kate Chiggwidden, her answer was slightly different:

Myself: What do you think of bands trying to be like more popular ones like Green Day or Offspring?
Chiggwidden: It annoys me because I want to hear new stuff, I like those bands but I don't want to hear it all again. I'm not even sure why bands do that sort of thing, cover versions of songs are good for a starting point but basing your whole sound on a band is silly.

Chiggwidden (17) was younger than Taylor (24), and appeared not to recognise the fact that I had used the example of two bands that had sold out (a term used to describe the moving of a band from an independent record label to a major record label. Selling out to the major recording industry is frowned upon in punk) to a major label. I have put this down to the Australian scene embracing bands regardless of what label they are on: "…we try to see all the bands that play here, we can't be that picky because they don't play here that often…" Chiggwidden (10/02/01). This statement was also backed up by Gareth James (23) of the UK when talking about punk shows: "It is easy for them (Americans), they have so much punk they don't know what to do with it, we have to take what we can get when we can get it!" (28/01/01).

It would appear that in this sense, music taste wins over the politics of punk. This is owing to the geographic placement of both countries. Although both countries have scenes of their own there is also no denying the American influence over punk across the world. California is the place where successful and established Fat Wreck Chords, Epitaph, Look Out and the long running fanzine Maximum Rock And Roll are all based. When James says that it is easy for the Americans he means that they have a lot more choice. In this country we have a lot of throw-away pop and "Indie" bands (not to be confused with the real indie bands of the punk scene but supported by majors, bands like Blur and Oasis) that take up the air waves on the radio and TV, in California, punk and rock is are music forms that get listened to a lot, it give listeners a much larger choice of music and diversity.

I noticed that Chiggwidden specified a band from her own country called Bodyjar in her favourite band list. After being together many years and releasing albums on independent labels they decided to sell out to a major (EMI). At the time I found this move rather surprising but looking at the band and the scene in Australia more closely you can start to see why. Chiggwidden didn't seem to recognise that the band had sold out, this surprised me - Did they not know that was "not punk" in Australia! I looked into this subject further on the Punk Down Under website (www.punkdownunder.cjb.net) and out of the five people who work on the site (age range from 13-18) four of them also had Bodyjar listed as one of their favourite Australian bands. The page on the site that includes a mission statement ("about") doesn't mention any politics or divisions between bands that are on majors or indies. All the bands are put together and this how they are viewed, I think that this has created greater unity within the scene as a whole in Australia, I shall go on to talk about this in a later chapter just looking at scenes.

In the UK, the story is very different, even bands that have not sold out or who are not even signed get shunned! At the moment there is a boom in bands and small scenes are starting to grow (certainly in the South) and are gaining recognition. There are two major factors in this happening. One is the growth of the new sub-genre of heavy metal called nu-metal. The bands within nu-metal generally play a hybrid of rap, metal and punk that cloud the borders of metal and punk and therefore confuse the audience of (generally) younger listeners. Frith calls this a new "genre world" and as the industry begins to make sense of the new sounds they "exploit both genre worlds and genre discourses in the orderly routines of mass marketing" (1996: 88, cited by Negus, 1999: 29). Within this music scene are people who are not really concerned with the ideologies of punk or the major versus indie issue. The second reason is the growth of an offshoot from punk and grunge called emo (emotionally charged guitar pop). Emo has its roots in punk, with bands such as Gameface (signed to US independent Revelation) and Annalise (signed to UK independent Pigdog) who evolved their sound into the emo that it is today. Major label bands such as Bush (Interscope) and A New Found Glory (MCA) also play emo style music; again, they have been mass marketed and picked up by non-punks.
The new genres pertaining to be punk have attracted the wrong type of fans to shows where normal punk bands are playing. These people (often musicians themselves in an independent music scene) have gone away and formed there own bands which were described to me by Taylor as "copycat bands" and "too many little kids pretending to be into the scene, dressing in make up, and wearing ties, yet all they listen to is whatever is cool and their friends are into." (23/02/01). It is clear in the UK that the sell out, whether or not to a major record label or just to their peers is not appreciated. Of course, this attitude is without its ramifications. The style of music that bands play when they first get together is usually not how the band will sound after a year together. A band has to find a common thread to which they all play to, this will be they're "own sound". The fact that playing live also helps a band to evolve through audience reactions means that when they start out they may well sound like another Blink-182. If potential is there then this may get doused by views of people just casting them off as another "copycat band". It would appear that in Australia, new bands, regardless of music influence, succeed because their peers encourage them and this makes for a stronger scene. In the UK, the attitude towards new bands sounding too much like established ones serves as a division within scenes between people who like the more radio friendly tunes and the people who dislike that sound and thus feel they don't need anymore bands sounding like that.

SCENES:

Level 1:

Level 2:

Level:
3

A SIMPLE EXPLANATION:

The rough flow chart above describes the way in which the international punk scene works. Of course, it only includes the UK and Australia; if it were to include all the other countries in the world it would be structured the same only include more. If you look at the flow chart I have depicted the world punk scene as having three levels:

Level 1: Level one is the least complex level, it is simply punk, the one thing that really brings all the scenes together on a worldwide level.

Level 2: The second level is where punk breaks itself down into countries. When talking about punk on a worldwide level we could use Australian punk as a term rather than Brisbane punk.

Level 3: At this level, the country's scene breaks down even more into regional scenes. For example, most of the cities in a country will have their own punk scene, in Exeter there is a strong punk scene, in Brighton there is a punk scene. In turn, these scenes come together to form the level two scenes in my flow chart.

A scene is born out of style. Each different scene will have its own characteristics; for example, the scene in Exeter is synonymous with the emo style punk. The different areas of a country with their different styles all come together to create the whole countries scene. For example, Sweden, in Europe is renowned for fast melodic hardcore. There are different styles of music but they all come together from different areas to create the generalisation. English punk, is usually generalised by the country's most popular punk band Snuff, they play lots of different styles of punk and also encapsulate the mod idea. This enables them to fit into most scenes both within the country and outside it well. In Australia the idea is much the same but the bands behind it are different. Frenzal Rhomb play melodic 'fun' punk with no real politics and Bodyjar play fast melodic hardcore but are signed to a major label. This creates both a problem and a plus to the Australian scene. Although people will go to a website only to find information on Bodyjar the plus side is that they may well discover other independent bands that they might not have done if they hadn't had heard of Bodyjar through a major label.

PROBLEMS:

I have noted that in Australia there is a much stronger sense of unity. The scenes in each different place are in touch with each other and keep each other informed of what is going on in their scene. This in turn creates a communication network that here in the UK we could only hope for!

For a lot of punks in the UK, London is where they have to travel for to see international touring bands. When the larger bands in the punk scene play here they usually play in larger venues than bands from the UK. Obviously, a lot of people will fill these venues, which creates a less punk 'feel' to start with. The London scene is therefore accused of not being strong and that there is no real London scene. Reasoning for the way a lot of people outside of London feel this way is given in a letter to the fanzine Fracture (issue number: 15, P.30):

"Firstly, London is huge. While many cities have maybe one or two regular…venues, London has many, meaning a viable and unified scene is unlikely to evolve. Secondly, due to its size, London attracts the majority of large touring bands, so often is the case that there could be three or four gigs occurring in the space of a week, resulting in a polarisation of tastes."
(the.angel.satan@hotmail.com: 2001)

I find this letter interesting because it underlines what is wrong with the punk scene in the UK and reinstates the positive parts of the Australian punk scene that I have already picked up on. It goes on to mention how people from out of London attend gigs with preconceptions. It is these preconceptions that the Australian punk scene, in general, does not have. That is why their relatively small countrywide scene is more unified than the one in the UK.

In a questionnaire with Punk Down Under I asked why the Australian scene seemed tighter than the UK, to which I got the reply: "It's not really that tight, but we act like it is." Again, it is this type of positive attitude that the scene in the UK seems to lack but the Australian one doesn't.

SUBCULTURES AND SUBCULTURAL CAPITAL:

According to The Exploding Dictionary, a subculture is: "a social group within a national culture that has distinctive patterns of behaviour and beliefs". Although the punk subculture exists within national culture of both Australia and the UK, it also rebels against the norms of it and could therefore be seen as an oppositional subculture.

Within this oppositional subculture, knowledge is needed to understand the practices and ideologies of modern punk. Subcultural capital therefore acts as a kind of hierarchy. Assuming punks who have been around longer will understand the punk ethic better than ones who are new to the scene a ruling body can be found.

Looking at Pierre Bourdieu's theories in relation to the terrain of youth culture, subcultural capital confers status on its owner in the eyes of the relevant beholder, subcultural capital is objectified in the form of fashionable haircuts and well assembled record collections (full of well-chosen, limited edition "white label" twelve-inches and the like) and subcultural capital is embodied in the form of being "in the know" (Thornton, 1995: 11).

Indeed, this would seem true, if I consider myself ethnographically in the punk scene I would say I am more punk now than I was five or six years ago. The punks own music collection could be seen as money invested into the scene in order to gain a broader knowledge of punk.

As well as music playing a part in ones own subcultural capital, t-shirts, 'hoodies', stickers and patches are also seen to contribute to your capital. T-shirts allow you to show which bands you favour, or rather more, let you be seen wearing a t-shirt that tells other punks just how punk you are. For example, at a gig, a person wearing a Green Day t-shirt would not be classed as punk as if say they sported an 88 Fingers Louie t-shirt. These distinct differences allow others in the punk scene to determine, according to Thornton, your level of "hipness" (1995: 11) and to show your "underlying thematic" (Cohen, 1972, Gelder and Thornton, eds. 1997: 94).

These methods of gaining subcultural capital, knowledge about your scene, are all bought to you through meditation. Which leads me neatly into the next chapter.

MEDIATION:

"…musical performance, as well as the acts of listening, dancing, arguing, discussing, thinking and writing about music, provide the means by which ethnicities and identities are constructed and mobilised." (M. Stokes, 1994: 5)

In this chapter I shall try to assess how punk is 'consumed'. By using meditation, punk can organise and network itself within a scene and this is done through several main practices, therefore I have split this chapter into sections dealing with; live performance; the use and importance of the fanzine and I shall to pay particular attention to the impact of the internet on punk and how the punks in both the UK and Australia utilise it.

LIVE PERFORMANCE:
In a previous chapter I dealt with the recording industries and how punks consume music through recorded material. A vital element in the success of a punk album is the way that it is performed live. A performance (gig) is a place for punks from different areas to meet up and enjoy an experience that the band intends to make memorable.
Place and situation plays a large part in our musical consumption. If we see a band play then we will react to the song differently to if we were just sat in our lounge. Music is used as a cultural recognition tool. Stokes uses the example of Irish migrants in the UK and US; there are jukeboxes that play Irish balladry or 'Country and Irish' music in pubs and bars this defines "a moral and political community in relation to the world which they find themselves." (M. Stokes, 1994: 3). I think that what he is saying here is that even though Irish people don't usually sit at home and all listen to Irish music when they are put somewhere else it is something that they can all relate to.
Even though people use music as a way of identifying themselves at a particular time and place I wanted to know if reactions to the English punk band Annalise were different when playing in Australia compared to the UK (full emails in appendix 3)
"…to be honest I felt a bit odd churning our stuff out in Australia then
hanging out on the beach and eating at sushi bars etc. The music seemed
pointless! We were driving along the south pacific highway in a people
carrier, air conditioned, looking out the windows to see who would be first
to spot a kangaroo! What's the point of banging on about small-town England
at a time like that?!" (Dave, Annalise: 2001)
"In Australia it was just fun, fun, fun if you see what I mean." (Ed, Annalise: 2001)
This evidence of the scene being more laid back also reiterates what I found out through the interviews I did with Australian fans, they are there for fun and not for politics.
Space plays a big part in how a crowd reacts; countless bands talk about how in a small venue there is more 'energy' and a better interaction between band and fan. From looking at both countries in relation to space, you can move out of the venue and into the actual country. There is proof that in the smaller country, UK there is more understanding of the politics of punk because of the space or environment that we are in:
"In many ways for me punk is mainly about environment. Urban environment. In Australia things are much more laid back. They've got money, beer, food, beaches and loads of space. English punk kind of reflects overcrowding, territory and claustrophobia but it's also an antidote to urban oppression, like a way out from the mundane and greyness." (Dave, Annalise: 2001)
Bands can sing about the urban oppression and turn it into something that (at least) the people in the UK can relate to. Sometimes the way that the oppression is brought through the music is to use hardcore. Hardcore political bands such as the English Whizzwood and the Canadian Propagandhi sing about their ideologies through punk. Ideas can be conveyed well through music.
THE USE AN IMPORTANCE OF THE FANZINE:
Fanzine beginnings can be traced as far back as the sixteenth century in the form of pamphlets and newsletters. This self-publication trend continued right through the ages and continued into the 1900's where the pamphlets were usually political in content and were therefore frowned upon by the authorities. As we move into the twentieth century, the 'zine starts to emerge as science fiction publications. In 1926 Hugo Gernsback launched Amazing Stories, it was the first publication to print original stories of science fiction based material. Gernsback also made the decision to publish writers names and addresses so those enthusiasts could write to each other directly and discuss stories. (R. Seth Friedman http://www.factsheet5.com/History.html). This was ground breaking as it opened up the print medium to be an interactive communication.

Enthusiasts of football in the UK soon started to produce fanzines for supporters of particular teams. 'Zines could keep fans informed of what their team was doing as it served as an excellent means of communication that was relatively cheap. The photocopier was invented and when the punk movement started to thrive in the late seventies, punks found that they could cheaply produce 'zines to communicate ideas and information on the movement, and to this day, the 'zine plays an integral part of the punk scene.

Sniffin' Glue was the UK's leading punk 'zine back in the seventies, it featured a different layout to usual mainstream magazines. It was made up through cut and paste (a system still used today and a term that is even used by companies as big as Microsoft). It also had hand lettering, uneven typing and badly reproduced black and white photos. However bad it seemed then, mainstream publications liked the way it was set out and consequently most mainstream publications of today follow the layout of Sniffin' Glue to some extent.

THE AMERICAN WAY:

During the sixties and seventies in the US a political movement called the New Social Movement had started to develop. Its main strategies were, according to J. Schalit to "politicise cultural institutions to counter State intrusion into the public life of individuals engaged in the pursuit of unrestrained economic interests." (Bad Subjects, 1994) By this they meant they wanted to resist what they saw as the limiting of free thought that they claimed was being enforced by the government.
The ideas of the New Social Movement were being channelled into the construction of the punk community, particularly within the San Francisco bay area where Tim Yohannon, a member of the Communist Party and a former student activist at Rutgers (the State University for New Jersey) during the 1960's, set about putting together Maximum Rock And Roll. He "deliberately politicised an industry that he saw as having a critical function for young and old people alike in American culture that could be a place to reconstruct the political idealism he was fed as an adolescent during the heyday of the student movement". (J. Schalit, Bad Subjects, 1994)
The foundations for the ideologies of punk as we know them today were laid in Maximum Rock And Roll at this time: "Write music for oneself and one's friends, produce it independently, utilizing all the means at one's disposal that one did not have to contract out to someone else to do, and manage one's own business affairs in order to retain control over the creative and political aspects of one's own work." (J. Schalit, Bad Subjects, 1994)
After being published monthly for over eighteen years, Maximum Rock And Roll is still today's largest punk fanzine, it has distributors in most countries and even if a store near you doesn't stock it you can get it sent via subscription. It has a range of columnists who tackle issues such as punk, politics, education, humour, sexuality and religion. It is not a 'zine for the faint hearted reader, it contains well over a hundred pages each month and every page is crammed full of information. The ideologies that were put in place by Yohannon are still in practice and there is absolutely no funding from major corporations or business. Just about everything you need to know about the international punk scene is included in this fine fanzine. Maximum Rock And Roll has also become the 'zine that others try to emulate and is therefore probably one of the most important in the world of punk. Most 'zines have something in common with it, for example, the UK 'zine Fracture has a columns section similar in style and the reviews are written with the in the same format. It has to be said that although a lot of punk 'zines look similar in layout the contents of the ones that are more individual and therefore more successful is different.
GET WITH THE TIMES:
Punk has a good knack at keeping up with the times, fanzines have always utilized technology so it is no surprise that when the internet came along, punk would get on board.

The U.S. Department of Defence laid the foundation of the internet roughly 30 years ago with a network called ARPANET. However, the general public didn't use the internet much until after the development of the world wide web in 1991, thanks to developer Tim Berners-Lee and others at the European Laboratory for Particle Physics, also known as Conseil Européenne pour la Recherche Nucléaire (CERN). The CERN team created the protocol based on hypertext that makes it possible to connect content on the web with hyperlinks. The internet is a fast moving media, even in June 1993, there were still only 130 Web sites. Now there are millions and millions. (Cited from http://www.microsoft.com/insider/internet/articles/history.htm)

The introduction of the internet has had a huge impact on the communication throughout the punk network:

"I do think that it has had a fairly big impact on punk. Mainly
because it is now much easier for us all to find out about bands that
we would have never known about beforehand. That and you can pretty
much do as well as the major corps with a little spare time, there's
no real gap between big and little brother, if you know what I mean." (Jake 'Downunder' 19/04/01)

Instead of just being able to distribute your 'zine in one area you can now upload it to the 'net for anyone to browse through. The punk website is fast becoming the 21st century version of the fanzine. Online publications (or e-'zines as they are now better known) can be just as good, if not better than print 'zines. One main problem I find with print 'zines is that they are one-off publications that are often put together by students as practical projects. Although there is nothing wrong with one-off publications themselves, in order to keep a scene strong some continuity is required. E-'zines can offer this continuity because they are so easy to maintain. Instead of having to pay for a print run you can simply upload one copy, and if your e-'zine is heavily text based it takes little time to actually upload it. Hundreds of titles of e-'zines are available. For punk e-'zines an invaluable source for finding out web addresses is www.punkrock.org. The House of Rising Punk lists everything on the Internet to do with punk. It has sections for bands, labels, scenes and stores. Each link takes you to the respective website.

Email has also been a major factor in advertising the e-'zine. Once you subscribe to mailing lists you get updates and adverts for new e-'zines in you mail box each day. This, of course, is much cheaper than sending mail shots through the regular postal service.

As I mentioned in the first chapter, most writers deny that punk still lives on. I also found in reading Punk Rock: So What that was published in 1999 and edited by Robin Sabin, that some writers even fail to recognise the relationship with punk and the internet at all, instead, they push the fact that the punk fanzine now lives on in comic books such as Subvert Man, I find this quite ignorant. I found it strange that a writer or editor could ignore the impact of the internet on any subject matter in 1999.

In my view, the future communication of punk lies in the e-'zine. 'Zines have come a long way since there inception and I think that moving them onto the internet was a natural progression, similar from going from black and white to colour. The layouts remain similar on web pages and the content is largely the same, now they are free and offer downloads for free too. I would suggest that the internet has had a positive impact on the fanzine, I only hope that creativity and content doesn't get lost in the crossover, a concern that was shared by Taylor: "(it's) Good that people can access the music but bad in the way it can lead to too many people who are not really into it just tagging along" (23/02/01)

As well as the internet having an impact on 'zines, it has also had an impact on labels too. Most punk labels have websites now and from most you can download music or order albums. As I run a small record label, b&g Records (www.bgrecords.co.uk) I can say that the internet has provided me with a means to communicate with people and bands that wasn't there until I got a computer and a modem. Punks from all around the world can access my site and download anything that I have put on it. When I joined the punk scene seven years ago this just wouldn't have been possible. Even links that I have made in this country would have been harder to establish if I didn't have the use of email at home.

The internet is utilised well by the Australian punk scene. The website Punk Downunder, is an invaluable source for punks in Australia as they have people from all around the country working on it. I find it hard to imagine that they would all work together on a regular print-based fanzine with such long distances between them. With a country as large as Australia, punks need something to keep them informed on what is going on around the country, the website becomes a platform for this information: "…the scenes are really (geographically speaking) divided over here…I think having something that most people can access is generally a good thing." (Jake 'Downunder' 19/04/01 Questionnaire and answers in appendix 4)

The availability of the material to fans is now widespread with the internet playing a huge part in the distribution of music. Websites such as my own, which offer free downloads of punk mp3s (with artist and label permission) allow punks to get a preview of bands that they might not have heard unless it was available for them to download for free. Although the major recording industry sees such downloads as damaging to record sales (and through the mass file swapping using the Napster program of major label artists you can appreciate their concern) the independent recording industry has seen the downloading facility as a bonus. The system encourages the fan to buy the album that the track is from or go and see them when they play in their town. US band, The Ataris, have seen their popularity rise dramatically from having some of their material available for download from the site www.mp3.com. By letting fans download one song from their new album before it was released created high anticipation for the rest of the album, therefore when it was released it was greeted by high sales.

NAPSTERS EFFECTS:

The effect that Napster has had on punk music is quite positive. Most bands have seen it as a chance to get their music heard by people who might not have been brave enough to spend money on an album not fully knowing what the band sounded like. I asked Jake 'Downunder' what he thought about Napster and he explained to me:

"I found, not a thieves guild (as the mass media would have us think) but a group of people who really like music. Not only this, but I've met a lot of local bands (from Australia that is) that use it to find fans, i.e.: finding people who
have music in the same genre and then suggesting themselves. Since getting Napster I've actually been buying more music and going to see more bands. So, in general, I think it's a great idea, but like any great idea, someone is going to use it the wrong way (you can't have Einstein without getting the atom bomb)." (Jake 'Downunder' 19/04/01)

I would say that if a band used Napster correctly, as Jake 'Downunder' mentioned then, it could be a very useful tool for the punk band and indeed the punk label.

The punk scene can sustain itself through the sale of records, t-shirts, tickets for gigs and such like. Through its channels of distribution; live performance, print-based fanzines, the internet and its e-'zines, labels and mp3 files, punk as a subculture and way of life can function on its own without the need of corporate funding. In order for punk to sustain itself in Australia it has utilised the internet as a meeting place for bands and fans alike to share ideas and distribute itself across the vast land. In the UK, although the growth of the internet hasn't been as fast, we still try to communicate with each other in different scenes through email and some e-'zines. The print fanzine still plays a strong roll in letting punks know what is going on in the UK scenes. Punk shows offer both countries a place to meet new people and enjoy a shared experience that isn't forgotten fast whilst at the same time develop punk music to rival the might of the US punk scene.

OVERALL CONCLUSIONS:

From studying punk in both the UK and Australia I have found that some simple, yet important factors ensure that both countries differ significantly in the way punk is produced, dispersed and consumed.

THE UK:

Although the UK seems to understand the true meaning of punk through the use of fanzines and bands that are aware of the politics of punk this sometimes acts as a negative element of the UK's punk scene. Fans and indeed fanzines often don't give bands a long enough trial period for which to grow and find their own style, thus creating a strong barrier for these bands to break and in turn producing a weaker sense of unity within the scene. Subcultural capital plays a big part in the scenes in the UK. Current fans are too fast to judge a new fan or a younger fan because of the way they dress or act. This stems from the idea that the major bands will distort the punk scene so much that it will be flooded by fans who consider themselves to be punk but who are not. They want to keep punk for the elite.

On the positive side of things, bands from the UK are often of very high quality because of the high expectations from fans. This helps paper over the cracks in the UK scene that are created through subcultural capital and aids the UK scene on the worldwide stage by making us look good!

With the growth of US labels such as Fat Wreck Chords comes a wave of new interest in punk. This has spawned many new fans and thus created more bands to keep the UK scene vibrant and relatively strong.

AUSTRALIA:

The only thing that worries me about Australia is that not enough people understand the true meaning of punk, as we know it in the UK. This has created a different scene to the UK in that it is very positive. Australian punks have set out their own rules and rule number one is to have fun through music. This makes for a much more united scene overall. Therefore, it is not a case of either country being more punk but both countries owning their own set of values. On the worldwide stage this creates diversity within punk that makes punks from across the world buy albums by Australians, British, French, Brazilian and any other nationality in the world.

Although the Australian scene appears stronger than the UK scene the negative aspect of the scene is that it appears very young. There is a risk that punks being so young may stop being punks in a few years time. Most of the bands in the UK are made up of people over twenty whereas in Australia a large amount of bands are made up of younger people, although this creates enthusiasm it may make the strong sense unity crumble within a few years as more punks 'loose the edge'.

Both countries embrace a different punk attitude but both create some excellent music that is listened to worldwide. Punk in both countries will continue to grow along with technology and use these technologies as a means of mediation. There is no doubt in my mind that punk is not going to 'die' in either country and in my opinion punk will remain a strong music force which will continue, in the immortal words of Sir John Reith, to inform, educate and entertain.

BIBLIOGRAPHY

BOOKS REFERENCED:

Frith. S - 1983 - Sound Effects - Youth Leisure And The Politics Of Rock 'N' Roll - Constable and Company Ltd.

Garfield. S - 1986 - Expensive Habits - The Dark Side Of The Music Industry - Faber and Faber

Gelder. K & Thornton. S (eds.) - 1997 - The Subcultures Reader - Routledge

Herndon. M & McLeod. N (eds.) - 1981 - Music As Culture - Norwood Editions

Home. S - 1995 - Cranked Up Really High - Genre Theory and Punk Rock -Codex

Laing. D - 1985 - One Chord Wonders - Power And Meaning In Punk Rock - Open University

Negus. K - 1999 - Music Genres And Corporate Cultures - Routledge

Sabin R. - 1999 - Punk Rock: So What. The cultural legacy of punk - Routledge.

Stokes. M (ed.) - 1994 - Ethnicity, Identity And Music - The Music Construction Of Place - Berg (Oxford Providence)

Thornton. S - 1995 - Club Cultures : Music, Media and Subcultural Capital - PolityPress

INTERNET ARTICLES REFERENCED IN THE PAPER:

Anderson. L - 08/05/2000 - The Industry Standard Magazine: Score One for the Record Industry - http://www.thestandard.com/article/0,1902,14625,00.html

Goth Itoi N. - 01/01/1999 - Hard Day's Night - Red Herring - http://www.redherring.com/index.asp?layout=story&channel=70000007&doc_id=490017049

Schalit. J - 1994 - Bad Subjects #14 - Maximum False Conciousness: The Political

Economy Of American Punk - http://eserver.org/bs/14/Schalit.html

Seth Friedman R. - Fact Sheet Five- A Brief History Of 'Zines -http://www.factsheet5.com/History.html

Van Van Dorston A. S. - A History of Punk - http://www.fastnbulbous.com/punk.htm

WEBSITES USED AS REFERENCE:

A Brief History of the Internet - http://www.microsoft.com/insider/internet/articles/history.htm

Punk Down Under - http://www.punkdownunder.cjb.net

The Exploding Dictionary -http://projects.ghostwheel.com/dictionary?define=subculture

WEBSITES ACCESSED DURING RESEARCH:

b&g Records - http://www.bgrecords.co.uk
Far Q Records - http://www.farqrecs.co.uk
mp3.com - http://www.mp3.com
Napster - http://www.napster.com
straight-edge.com - http://www.straight-edge.com
The House Of Rising Punk - http://www.punkrock.org

SEARCH ENGINES USED:

Altavista - http://www.altavista.com
Google - http://www.google.com
Sarah Zupko's Cultural Studies Center - http://www.popcultures.com
Yahoo! - http://www.yahoo.com

FANZINES USED:

Fracture Issues 14 and 15
Maximum Rock And Roll - Various Issues

APPENDICES

APPENDIX 1:
Piloted questions through email:
· Why do you like punk?
· What does punk mean to you in terms of: music, politics, and way of life?
· What makes someone punk?
· How important are scenes?
· How strong is your scene?
· Do you think the internet is a positive thing for punk? - Why? Why not?
· What difference, if any, should nationality make?

APPENDIX 2:
AOL Instant Messenger interviews. I am BandGrecords and my first respondent, Paul Taylor, owner of Far Q Records, is The Scrumble Man:
BandGrecords: for a relatively young label do you have grown quickly, what do you put this down to?
The Scrumble Man: I put it down to a lot of hard work on my account and an advert we placed online
BandGrecords: Where was that?
The Scrumble Man: on some Punk site I saw online
BandGrecords: Was it American or British?
The Scrumble Man: It's bizarre how the internet can even bring the punks together, and it was English.
The Scrumble Man: But yet we get bands from USA, Russia, Australia, Sweden etc contact us
BandGrecords: Yeah, I agree, do you think that the advent of the internet will bring punk together stronger?
The Scrumble Man: I would hope so. The fact that it has become a lot easier for people to get online is a good thing and now punk can reach the masses it needs to. But this could be a good or bad thing.
BandGrecords: In what way bad? Or good?!
The Scrumble Man: Good that people can access the music but bad in the way it can lead to too many people who are not really into it just tagging along
BandGrecords: Yeah, I know what you mean, do you think it (the internet) will help put Britain firmly on the map? We certainly have enough strong enough bands now...
The Scrumble Man: I would like to think that the internet would play no part in it and that the bands were strong enough to succeed anyhow. I think the problem is it could lead to too many wannabe bands emerging that were not good enough and spoiling the current UK scene
BandGrecords: Good point, but it makes communication a lot easier doesn't it?
The Scrumble Man: Yes I agree it does that
BandGrecords: I dunno about you but we get email everyday from crap bands trying to be the next Blink-182 or Green day, what would you put this down to?! And please give me a remedy! :)
The Scrumble Man: I would put this down to the fact that major labels have invested a lot of money advertising green day, blink 182 and more recently limp bizkit, linkin park, papa roach. They are portrayed an image to the kids who wanna be like them. It was the same in my day, except the bands were decent and there wasn't as many of them.
BandGrecords: With these crap bands aside, how do you see the British scene in your area and as a whole? Do you find that gigs in London are different to say gigs in Winchester, Reading etc?
The Scrumble Man: In my area it is actually quite thriving with a lot of bands, but unfortunately nearly all are under 18 and they pretend to be something they are not. Luckily we have some good venues nearby at Southampton, Oxford, Winchester as you said and Portsmouth which all have reasonable scenes and we do get some decent bands playing there. There is also a new club being run in Basingstoke by a close friend of mine, which is thriving very well and making a lot of money. Unfortunately you mentioned Reading where there is no longer a live venue.
BandGrecords: I read the other day that gigs in London are pretty frequent so you get people only going to gigs that they like rather than a place that doesn't have as many gigs so everyone goes to all the gigs which makes the scene stronger - What's your take on that?
BandGrecords: I think what I'm trying to get at is that do you think that the scene as a whole is strong across the country?
The Scrumble Man: Hmm that's a hard one, I would say that in London the gigs are bigger and therefore more people can attend easier, in the local towns however the gigs are more intimate but you also get the school kids there more which is not what I particularly like to see. I think the scene is getting bigger all the time but I also think there are too many copycat bands emerging and too many little kids pretending to be into the scene, dressing in make up, and wearing ties, yet all they listen to is whatever is cool and their friends are into.
BandGrecords: What do you reckon the recent Emo craze that's hit the UK? Everyone seems to be going that way if they don't want to sound like (as they put it) "Just another Fat sounding band", Fracture seemed to embrace it last year and now they're slagging it off, I don't really understand that! As far as punk goes I think Emo pushes it right to the border of corporate Bush type music, what do you reckon?
BandGrecords: I think everyone heard what a great album Every Last Time by Gameface was and tried to copy it!!! Ha!
The Scrumble Man: I think because it is coming so popular, Fracture are trying to keep distanced, although they are a great fanzine I feel they try too hard sometimes to ensure they are different. But it is the definitive bible really.
BandGrecords: Yeah, emo though, good or bad?
The Scrumble Man: I am really not sure on that, sometimes I like, sometimes not, depends on my mood really.
BandGrecords: Changing the subject a bit, what do you make of Napster? For or against?
The Scrumble Man: Well I can see the benefits of it for sure for the fans getting access to music and bands. I do feel however that it does damage record sales. If everyone downloaded and didn't buy cd's the record companies would have no money, independent labels would not survive and the major would only invest in bands that would make them millions so we could have a lot of westlife type bands (even though we do already). I feel however bands and labels should work with napster but set a limit as to what napster can supply, either on a small amount of songs or only 1 minute samples or something
BandGrecords: I guess your speaking in the mind of a record exec! I can see your point, no sales means no money. If this is something that major labels can't control and they start losing interest in spending so much money on Westlife and manufactured bands I guess that would be a good thing.
The Scrumble Man: But they make money from the manufactured bands, with sales and extra merchandise that it would get to the point that they only invested in them
The Scrumble Man: And other bands would not be given the chance
BandGrecords: Bands are enjoying Napster at the moment, The Ataris, a big band I know are Napster friendly, I guess they can afford to be. But smaller bands like Whizzwood or Lightyear also seem to Napster friendly, their gonna lose money but they will still get their music listened to. I dunno, it's a toughy alright! I think that the punk scene should be able to sustain itself even though people download stuff from Napster for free because I'm sure that when people see a live band they will waltz on over to the merch booth and buy some stuff
The Scrumble Man: Yeah I can see that punk can benefit as the bands are not as big, But how many punks will think, they are cool sod spending £8 on a CD I'll download some at the weekend?
BandGrecords: Maybe this is where vinyl will have it's day again as it can't be bootlegged so damn easy by a spotty 13 yr old!!
The Scrumble Man: Yeah I think punk has always been a vinyl thing though, hence why we plan on releasing some vinyl.
BandGrecords: True, I think people who are into the scene enough to part with cash to see a small band will though
The Scrumble Man: I would like to think that they would yeah.
BandGrecords: From a band member perspective though, would you rather 100 more people listened to your track for free than the ten that bought the record??
BandGrecords: I think that's a toughy too!
The Scrumble Man: I would like both!
The Scrumble Man: I think for a band our size we are more worried about exposure as most punk bands are
BandGrecords: Yeah, a good point, I think that is where the internet comes into it's own
The Scrumble Man: Want more people to hear us and come to the shows
BandGrecords: Yeah, sod selling records, lets sell food and clothes with band names on!
The Scrumble Man: Yeah I agree there as well, it is good for exposure but will the wrong people listen to you though.
The Scrumble Man: You can make a lot of cash thru merchandise though
BandGrecords: What do you mean by the wrong people?
The Scrumble Man: I knew you would ask that, I mean the spotty kids that in my opinion ruin the scene. I would rather play over 18 shows myself and everyone got drunk and had a good time. None of this age checking at bar, sit in circles and act cool to your mates. People should be themselves
END OF INTERVIEW

I am BandGrecords and my second respondent Gareth James, a fan of punk for many years is Emailmrg:

BandGrecords: Could you introduce yourself please?
Emailmrg: My name is Gareth James and I am a punker! Well, I like punk rock and I am in a small band, I am a vegetarian, I work two jobs and I'm tired right now!
BandGrecords: OK! What got you into punk in the first place?
Emailmrg: Actually, it was this guy called Alan, I went to college with him and he showed me his punk collection which I put entirely on tape. I was listening to bands like the Offspring and Green Day, they were on MTV and were better than what I used to listen to
BandGrecords: What was that?
Emailmrg: Hah! Heavy metal man!
BandGrecords: Do you still listen to any of the old stuff now?
Emailmrg: Yeah, sometimes I put a Green Day album on and sometimes I crank up G'NR!
BandGrecords: What do you think of the current punk scene in the UK at the moment?
Emailmrg: I don't really consider myself to be part of any scene. I actually think that the whole scene thing in the UK is a bit over exaggerated.
BandGrecords: What do you mean?
Emailmrg: Well, in London there is not really a sense of belonging to any scene. I have never gone to a gig and met up with people that I actually just meet at gigs. I don't really know what it is like elsewhere. I used to live in Reading where there was more sense of belonging but I think that was because there was less people and I knew most of them, it didn't make the gigs any better/worse though.
BandGrecords: Do you feel some kind of bitterness to London then?
Emailmrg: Of course not! I don't think that you need a sense of unity to have a good time at a gig. I prefer smaller gigs where the bands are up close but I don't really like it if it's full of kids, I know that was me a while back but they just annoy me! I just like a gig where it's full of people who all have mutual respect for each other and they are all there to have a few beers and watch some cool bands.
BandGrecords: What do you make of other people knocking London then?
Emailmrg: Well, don't knock until you've tried it. I can understand if people love their scene and all that but, I dunno, stick to what you like I guess.
BandGrecords: Do you think if we all kept in touch with one another then you would start to feel part of a scene?
Emailmrg: Yeah, I guess so. I email people up north and that makes me feel like I'm contributing to a country wide kind of scene.
BandGrecords: Do you think the internet is a good or bad thing?
Emailmrg: To be honest I don't really think enough people use it in this country yet. I mean the Americans are born with computers attached now so it's second nature for them and I guess that's why they can have wizzy websites and stuff. There are some cool UK ones though. Theres not really a single place on the web that allows all of the UK to come together, that's what we are missing at the moment.
BandGrecords: Is that a good or a bad thing though?
Emailmrg: Er, the internet is good, not something we should fear, I can order CDs straight from the label now which makes me happy!!
BandGrecords: What do you make of the whole sell out thing?
Emailmrg: Selling out really sucks. I hate it when bands do. It doesn't seem to be that much of a problem in the UK because we really don't have that many big punk bands.
BandGrecords: So you are really talking about foreign bands then?
Emailmrg: Yeah, I hate liking a band and then they sell out. It doesn't make their old stuff sound bad but I really resent having to go see them knowing they're on a big nasty!
BandGrecords: Why don't you just avoid seeing them?
Emailmrg: Like I said, it doesn't make their old stuff bad. I don't think we can be that choosy. If a band is good then you go to see them regardless of the label they're on. It's not like America where bands are playing all the time. It is easy for them, they have so much punk they don't know what to do with it, we have to take what we can get when we can get it!
BandGrecords: Right. Do you get annoyed with the heavy American influence on bands over here?
Emailmrg: No not really, I don't mind, who cares where the band are from just as long as they are good! I do think that when we get a good band from the UK they usually are really good.
BandGrecords: Changing the subject a bit, where are you on the whole Napster debate?
Emailmrg: To be honest, I love it! You can get just about anything you like off of it and I really don't believe it's damaging the indie record companies or bands. Most of them are in it to get their music across and if loads of people are listening to it then they don't care about the money. I mean, how cool is it if a bunch of people are listening to your stuff in Columbia and you are in a tiny band from South London??!! They would have never been able to get their hands on a ltd stock of CDs so I reckon it's great.
BandGrecords: Yeah, I agree totally, if the bands are in it for the money in the first place then they have no place in punk scene.
Emailmrg: Exactly. The only trouble is when people start downloading instead of buying. But saying that, I'd rather have the actual CD in my hands than a file on my computer any day!
BandGrecords: There has been talk of Napster being closed down…
Emailmrg: Yeah, but who cares?! As soon as that's closed down another will open and I expect it'll be better!
BandGrecords: Metallica say it's stealing!
Emailmrg: Rubbish, how can you put a price on a bunch of notes!! I see the same thing with art and everything. Yeah, sure you need money to live but come on, when people start paying millions for a piece of paper with paint then you have to draw the line somewhere, that could house a family or two or a few years!
BandGrecords: Yeah, I get your point. What are your favourite bands at the moment?
Emailmrg: I'm listening to Kid Dynamite, Propagandhi, The Ataris and Adhesive a lot at the moment. I went to see Less Than Jake the other day, they were pretty good but I think I preferred the first band on who were Capdown from the UK, they are so good, the next big thing I'm sure!!
BandGrecords: What do you make of the Nu-Metal thing at the moment?
Emailmrg: It really winds me up actually. I hate hearing the songs because they try to write them as catchy as possible!! I hear a bit of a song that I don't even like and end up singing it all day, stupid bands! That's not proper metal! I listened to proper metal, big hair, big guitars, huge drumkits - That's metal!!
BandGrecords: How come you stopped liking metal then?
Emailmrg: It just seemed silly, I liked Nirvana and the other grunge bands but I think I got sick of all the macho stuff and poncy guitar solos and stuff, also I couldn't play the songs on my guitar - I can punk!!
BandGrecords: I think I know what you mean! We'll have to get together to chat about metal again, it makes me laugh! Ah memories!
Emailmrg: Too right!
BandGrecords: Thanks for this, it's very helpful!
Emailmrg: No problem.
END OF INTERVIEW

APPENDIX 3:
Emails from Annalise on Australia:
Subject Aussie punkrock
Date: 20/04/2001 19:01:51 GMT Daylight Time
From: annaliseuk@hotmail.com (Annalise .)To: BandGrecords@aol.com

Hi,

In many ways for me punk is mainly about environment. Urban environment. In
Aus things are much more laid back. They've got money, beer, food, beaches and loads of space.

English punk kind of reflects overcrowding, territory and claustrophobia but
it's also an antidote to urban oppression, like a way out from the mundanity
and greyness. At least for me that was the root reason why I got into punk.
Like I said in that Essay, bands such as the Saints came out of urban
ghettos like Yatala and conveyed the anger and energy of punk because it
came from the heart. Punk bands in Australia now seem more fashionable, a
bit like the way Blink 182 are. Wallet chains, hoodies etc.
I'm sure this is a generalisation - after all we only saw a handful of bands

The way modern culture works, angry, poppy punk has eventually become a
symbol of youth & rebellion, so people can relate to US pop punk through
style etc without having to be born in a council estate and live the kind of
life 77 punk originally grew out of! The Aussie scene seems a bit like this,
kind of goofy college punk. We went down alright but I guess we're a bit too
rooted in our own environment to really come across as well as other UK
bands who take a more cartoony approach.
Also, to be honest I felt a bit odd churning our stuff out in Aus, then
hanging out on the beach and eating at sushi bars etc. the music seemed
pointless! We were driving along the south pacific highway in a people
carrier, air conditioned, looking out the windows to see who would be first
to spot a kangaroo! What's the point of banging on about small-town England
at a time like that?!
Interestingly a week later when we played in Japan it all seemed to have
some point again. Jap punks seem to lead a hectic and Spartan life a bit
like ours and the songs translated well, even across a language barrier.
Strange really!

Cheers,

Dave

Subject Aus punk
Date: 20/04/2001 09:31:36 GMT Daylight Time
From: annaliseuk@hotmail.com (Annalise .)To: BandGrecords@aol.com

Hey Ben,
One thing that might be of help is something that Russell from Pigdog
Records wrote about Australia on his site:
http://www.pigdogrecords.com

If you go to the Annalise section under 'sounds' you'll see a song called
'Y'fuckin'freak'. The lyrics that are included are about a punk house we
stayed at while on tour and Russell has done a cool story about it all that
you can read.

From my point of view, the gigs we played reminded me of when i first
started going to shows over here in the early 80's where everyone was
getting out of their heads rather than standing back and studying the band
like often happens here nowadays. The difference being that there was no
threat of violence like there was when i started going to shows (every show
then felt it was going to kick off in someway!). In Aus it was just fun
,fun, fun if you see what i mean. One thing though, it's only a little
snapshot of the gigs we played. I'm sure other types of shows have other
audiences. ie. we played a really great 'emo' type show in Melbourne which
was identical to any UK show now really.

Most of the people we met though were more kind of drinkin, shagging, punk
rockers and they were fun, cool people. I actually much prefer that to the
chin stroking indie rock types!

If you need some more info you might want to have a word with Matt at Rabbit
Records & Tom at Deplorable Records. Being on the scene there themselves
they could tell it first hand. The email addresses are on our site
somewhere.

Hope that's of some help.
Cheers, Ed.

APPENDIX 4:
Hey dude.

Sorry about the delay, completely forgot about the questions (I
answered them the day I got them, just had them lying around on my
computer). Anyway, we'll send you some questions soon.

Cheers
Jake Downunder

19/04/01

1. It says on your site that you started out last year online,
did you have a print version out before this?

Nope. We pretty much started out for the internet. Basically, none of
us (until recently, look out for a print version in the near future)
could afford to be printing stuff up without knowing if people would
want it.

2. For a relatively young site and resource you have grown
pretty quickly, what do you put this down to?

I think there was pretty much a need for something like this in
Australia... I know I started it because I wanted something like this
that I could go to. I guess other people did too. That and the fact
that punk has been getting a lot more radio airplay lately than back
when I got into it, hopefully people will come to our site to find
some Bodyjar dates and end up finding some new bands as well.

3. Would you say that the size of your country and the way
everything is spread out makes a place like yours on the web
essential?

Yeah, the scenes are really (geographically speaking) divided over
here. The major cities are the only ones that really have scenes at
all to the best of my knowledge. So, I think having something that
most people can access is generally a good thing. I wouldn't say that
we're essential, but we're not useless.

4. It looks like you spend a lot of time on the site, how often
do you update it? Does it take up loads of your time? Do you have a
day job? If so what else makes you tick?!

We update the site either when we feel like it, or when there's
something worth updating. We get a little slack occasionally, but we
try to get at least one decent update a week. Most of us are in
bands, so we're pretty involved in punk. As for jobs, I don't really
know. A few of us are still in school/uni.

5. Do you find it hard to get people to contribute to your
site? I do in some ways; I get the feeling that punks are pretty
lazy! Not really lazy but just hesitant to give their views but the
ones that do seem to shout out loud, form bands, fanzines/e-zines or
labels, would you agree?

We do actually have problems with this. But I think it's because
whenever anybody does put down some of their views they seem to get a
flood of abuse. It kinda puts you off writing anything. But I try to
do an article occasionally.

6. Would you consider the internet a big impact on punk rock?
Is it positive or negative?

Yeah, I do think that it has had a fairly big impact on punk. Mainly
because it is now much easier for us all to find out about bands that
we would have never known about beforehand. That and you can pretty
much do as well as the major corps with a little spare time, there's
no real gap between big and little brother, if you know what I mean.

7. What do you make of the whole Napster thing? Good or bad?

If you had asked me a month ago I would have said that I'm totally
against it. Mostly because of the whole Strung Out stolen ep thing,
but also because it doesn't hurt the majors, but the smaller bands,
the ones that actually need the support. However, like I said this
was a month ago. Slightly under a month ago, I downloaded Napster.
Mostly out of curiosity. I found, not a thief's guild (as the mass
media would have us think) but a group of people who really like
music. Not only this, but I've met a lot of local bands (from
Australia that is) that use it to find fans, ie: finding people who
have music in the same genre and then suggesting themselves. Since
getting Napster I've actually been buying more music and going to see
more bands. So, in general, I think it's a great idea, but like any
great idea, someone is going to use it the wrong way (you can't have
Einstein without getting the atom bomb). I'd say that Emusic.com is
the best idea so far though.

8. Where do you lie in the major label debate? Whatever your
answer would you say that it was true of all Aussie punkers in
general?

Well, I don't think my opinions really ever represent anyone besides
myself, but here goes. A lot of Australian punks have a go at Area 7
for selling out, but their sound hasn't changed, their message is
pretty much the same and they still play shows for under $15. I am of
the opinion that it doesn't matter if you are on a major. The Sex
Pistols were, The Clash were and I'm pretty sure that The Ramones
were on Warner at some stage too. BUT... what does matter is if
you're gonna change your tune once you are either on a major or
wanting to get onto a major. By changing your style or views to sell
more records, you are going against pretty much everything that punk
stands for. That is selling out. It's selling your fans out, it's
selling yourself out and most of all it's selling punk out. When
people think that modern punk can be represented by songs like Greed-
day's Time of your life and The Offspring's Original Prankster, we've
gotta realise that something has gone horribly wrong.

9. Skipping around your site one thing I picked up was that the
Aussie scene seems pretty tight in the way that you seem to consider
your whole country a scene rather than just a few cities. In the UK
it seems like, although we are small, there can be two scenes with
only a hundred miles or less between them but the communication is
not good. Why do you think this is?

It's not really that tight, but we act like it is. Basically because
there isn't enough of a scene in any one place to sustain our site.
Hopefully our propaganda and incessant brainwashing will pay off
someday.

10. Did you start up on the 'net cause it was easier and cheaper
and easy to distribute than a print fanzine?

Yes.

11. Is the scene made up of young or older people? Or is it
mixed? Is there a distinction between the ages?

Well, it differs according to area. I know that in Melbourne the
under age scene is thriving, but in NSW you're gonna lose a lot of
money if you don't sell beer at a show.

12. Do you think we should work on having many separate scenes or
try to work for a more global 1 scene? I guess if it were global
then bands would start sounding the same, it's bad enough when most
are from California!!!

I don't really know. I'd like to have the whole unity thing
happening, but I don't think that's a very realistic goal to set out
for. With America being such a dominant force on the punk scene, I'd
have to agree with you that everyone would end up sounding the same.
It's bad enough that we have so many Australian bands trying to put
on American accents.

13. Speaking of California, US and all that, does it piss you off
when they attract more people to gigs than smaller local or Aussie
bands are just as good? Do you mind when a bunch of Metallica or
Limp Biscuit fans with strange coloured hair turn up and really don't
understand the true meaning in the music? (you may have guessed it
pisses me off!!)

Yes. It pisses me off a lot. Especially when you can have a show of
about 8 great aussie acts for a single figure sum (and with our
current economy, that's an acheivement) that nobody will rock up to,
but the ataris show for almost $40 will be sold out.

14. In one sentence how would you describe the punk scene in
Australia or Brisbane (I hope it's positive 'cause b&g Records will
be relocating there pretty soon! We're fed up of the cold weather
and my girlfriend is homesick!!)

The punk scene in Australia is good, but I am from Melbourne and not
Brisbane so I can't help you there, it's fucking freezing here at the
moment.

APPENDIX 5:
This is a copy of the letter that was sent to the fanzine Fracture about scenes in the UK.
Dear Fracture,

I wish to write about the London 'Scene'. Fracture, among other 'zines seem to have a stereotypical view of the kind of reception you can expect at gigs in the capital. You can guarantee one or two of the following words and phrases will be used - unfriendly to outsiders, violent, tough guy attitude, intolerant, American wanabees, etc. I fear this popular view perpetrated in the main by 'zines and bands from outside the capital is in itself, perpetuating some of these problems.

I have been in and around the 'scene' for over 10 years and have attended gigs all over the UK and Europe, encapsulating all genres of hardcore and punk music, and am of the opinion that most of the 'scenes' around the country including some of the most celebrated - Bradford, Southampton. Newport - are as insular as London.

There are a number of issues concerning London that lead to misunderstanding. Firstly, London is huge. While many cities have maybe one or two regular hardcore venues, London has many, meaning a viable and unified scene is unlikely to evolve. Secondly, due to its size, London attracts the majority of large touring bands, so it is often the case that there could be three or four gigs occurring in the space of a week, resulting in a polarisation of tastes. Instead of going to one or two gigs in the course of a month no matter what the style because that's all there is, people often only go to the gigs that play the type of music they like best. This, I admit, is one of the biggest problems, i.e. many 'scenes' in London, with very little cross over of people or ideas. I'm not going to level criticism here, as on a purely economic level, when there is a plurality of choice and limited funds, gig-goers will pay for what they know they'll like rather than taking a chance.

Thirdly, many people seem to judge others simply on the way they dress or the way they dance - that's sooo punk. So what if someone thinks they look cool in American sports wear or express themselves on the dance floor? Sometimes I like to dance and I have never been hit or punched, even during some of the biggest shows, and sometimes I just want to chill at the back. I don't worry about what other people think of me and if someone stage dives and hits the floor, sure I'll help get them out of trouble. The views of 'zines who slag the people who attend gigs here may scare off some who would really enjoy themselves. I can also say honestly, that I have never seen anyone try and start a fight at a gig here.

Lastly, I fear, is the opinion others have of the 'scene' here especially in relation to new school hardcore. I have been to countless gigs, and never had any trouble, but I will relate this story, which I hope, illustrates my point. I was standing at a gig, just behind the pit, and as often happens, it lurched backwards in my direction, The guy in front of me was smoking a cigarette and as he was pushed back, he swung his arms back into my face, trying to keep his balance. My natural reaction was to push him forward so not to get burnt. One of his friends kind of told me to calm down, but due to the volume of the music I couldn't explain to him exactly what had transpired.

I looked for the friend after the gig to talk it over but he avoided me as I tried to get his attention. He probably thought I was looking for some kind of confrontation - and probably went home with all his preconceived ideas about London gigs confirmed. If he had listened to what I had to say, maybe he could have understood. I was just trying to stop a lit cigarette being pushed in my face (I maintain - smoking cigarettes right next to the stage is not only anti-social but also dangerous. Not just at sXe gigs either. How would the guy have reacted if I had been burnt?)

As far as I'm concerned, the 'rules' are the same as anywhere else - be respectful of those around you, support the bands, 'zines important, leave your preconceptions behind.

Thanks for your time

The Angel Satan, the.angel.satan@tinyworld.co.uk

APPENDIX 6:
Below is a copy of the questionnaire I sent to Kate Chiggwidden of Australia (katiechiggs@yahoo.com.au)

Please introduce yourself:
My name is Kate and I am a punk chick.
What do you like about punk?
I like the fact that everyone can be themselves and not really have to worry about what other people think of you. I love the music itself because it is so refreshing compared to the other stuff that gets put on the radio and MTV here.
What do you think makes a punk?
I don't think there should be that sort of question. It's not really a case of being more punk than anyone else or any guidelines to being a punk. Just be yourself whatever that is, that's punk.
What are your current favourite bands?
I love the new Frenzal Rhomb album, I am proud they are aussies! I also like NOFX, Pennywise, Bodyjar, Caustic Soda, The Living End, One Dollar Short, Rancid just loads! and some more bands that you might not really class as punk like Powderfinger, Reef and Killing Heidi.
What are your favourite Australian punk bands?
Ooops!! See above-Bodyjar, Frenzal, One Dollar Short, all of them really, I don't want to put the aussies down!!! (joke)
Do you like listening to new stuff?
Yes, definitely, all the time.

What do you think of bands trying to be like more popular ones like Green Day or Offspring?
I annoys me because I want to hear new stuff, I like those bands but I don't want to hear it all again. I'm not even sure why bands do that sort of thing, cover versions of songs are good for a starting point but basing your whole sound on a band is silly.
How would you rate the scene in Australia at the moment?
I'd say in Brisbane that we have a pretty good scene. Lots of people go to the shows and we all have a good time. I can't really speak for the rest of the country but it feels like punk is having its day at the moment over here, bands don't just play Sydney for a couple of nights they actually move up and down the coast instead of just flying off to Japan!
Do you enjoy going to shows?
I love going to shows and we try to see all the bands that play here, we can't be that picky because they don't play here that often. Usually if it's a band that you just kinda like we'll still go. Well only if its cheap, some of the bigger bands ask for more money and I just can't afford that.
Do you use the internet much for punk?
I sometimes look up bands and download stuff, not that much though. I also sometimes look up when bands are playing.
What do you think of Napster?
I can't really say, I don't have it. I know Metallica have something to do with it and they don't like it. I've heard some good stuff about it though.
In one sentence some up punk for you.
Punk is about being yourself, having fun and listening some really cool music.
Thank you for your time.